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xcaliber08

That Other Site...

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I'm probably going to get yelled at for this. But as far as I'm concerned there are two KI forum sites... this one and the "other" one that shall remain nameless. They have a new TOS protocol over speculation as opposed to confirmed "rumors." They argue this is due to them having an exclusive agreement with the media (Many people, including myself, refer to this action as the definition of a "sell out"). I am writing about this on this site, because I hope that KIExtreme.com does not follow suit. Kings Island forums are for its guests and the sites members to voice their opinions, thoughts, questions, and even" rumors" about the park and its operations. If the enthusiasts wanted to get their information from Kings Island they would go to Kings Island's website or wait for the press releases.

 

I understand there are people who talk to hear themselves talk. I assure you, however, there are people who browse these forums and are knowledgeable in regards to Kings Island in one way or another and post their knowledge on these sites. This "other" site wants these people to become exposed, lessening the likelihood they will put themselves on the line. Nobody's identity should be compromised because the "other" site wants to get into Kings Island's, Cedar Fair's and Cox Media's good graces. It is the site administrator's RESPONSIBILITY to ensure the privacy of their sources and members are protected. Without this, there is a loss of integrity and credibility as an unbiased source to the website. Trying to censor online, public forums is ludicrous. It takes away from their very purpose. In essence, the "other" site is now a satellite webpage for Kings Island - a supplemental if you will. I extremely doubt that anyone will post a "confirmed" rumor before it is published because they have to reveal their sources - a cost no one wants to bear. I find it intriguing because, to analogize the situation, not even the CIA would give private information about a leaked operative, Valerie Plame (an operative). This defied a court order and although the CIA eventually complied, they publicly assessed that their operative's privacy was of the utmost importance. These sites hardly resemble any CIA-like importance in their context but the members' privacy should be held at the same level - it's absolutely responsible.

 

I hope that others feel the same way I do and hope that, once again, KIExtreme.com remains committed to protecting their members and their private information - as well as their sources. It is the age of the internet and there are people who know more than us, it's the industry. Keep up the good work and I hope the site remains uncensored in its content: including rumors. Just don't let in any porn ;) If I sit down with the motivation, patience, and time... I will research how many rumors turned out to be true before any press releases were official. I would strive to say it's more than the "other" site thinks.

Edited by xcaliber08

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I can understand ware you are comming from but its the posters RESPONSIBILITY what they post not the site admins falut. Do keep in mind that the park does read these fourms.

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First off, let me correct some of the assumptions and liberties you take in making a lot of false claims you have here. Don (PKIDelirium) and Paul (TopGun1993), I consider to be pretty good friends of mine, they know I do a lot of work for that "other" site, they also know that the cold war of KI fan sites is pretty much over. KICentral and KIExtreme offer two different experiences, two different audiences for your content, and two different communities. Each is successful in it's own right. Note that in the recent expansion and growth of the "other" site, KIExtreme still remains as an excellent KI fan site while others (KIAsylum) have had less success. Today I like to think that each of us respects each other for the different content each site provides. Now on to your post...

 

I'm probably going to get yelled at for this. But as far as I'm concerned there are two KI forum sites... this one and the "other" one that shall remain nameless. They have a new TOS protocol over speculation as opposed to confirmed "rumors." They argue this is due to them having an exclusive agreement with the media (Many people, including myself, refer to this action as the definition of a "sell out").

 

-A couple things here. "They" DO have an exclusive agreement with the media, Cox publishing to be exact. Through our agreement with Cox, they provide exclusive coverage of Kings Island to 8 newspapers owned by Cox and those newspapers websites respectively. This includes but is not limited to; Photographs, videos, and articles. How this is considered "selling out", I do not know, here we see a business agreement. Each partner (KICentral and Cox Publishing) work to benefit each other and in turn the online community of KICentral benefits from this. Without the success of the Cox agreement there would have been no "KICentral: The event" in which many members from these forums, who are also valued members of the "other" site, attended and got to take part in many exclusive events. Even before the COX agreement, the other site already had an excellent, well established relationship of mutual respect for the park, I seem to recall them having many exclusive construction tours of the Firehawk construction last year that no other site had. This is not "selling out", this is working to create an even better site for it's users. Not to mention the work being done with COX is right up the alley for the young professionals who run the "other" site and are majoring in things like; Marketing, Photojournalism, communications, and one is even getting his Master's degree in Architecture.

 

I am writing about this on this site, because I hope that KIExtreme.com does not follow suit.

 

-Why? If some day KIExtreme had the opportunity to grow as the other site has recently through such agreements and benefit its members better why would you stand in the way of that when something similar could only benefit this site.

 

Kings Island forums are for its guests and the sites members to voice their opinions, thoughts, questions, and even" rumors" about the park and its operations. If the enthusiasts wanted to get their information from Kings Island they would go to Kings Island's website or wait for the press releases.

 

-What you just said is exactly what both sites, particularly the "other" site are about. There is nothing in their new Terms of Service protocol that says you can't discuss rumors. What it does state is that if you know something is 100% true and confirmed, you need to back it up with a valid source, and if it's just a rumor then you need state it is just a rumor. This is due to the very large audience KICentral has, even before the Cox partnership, many media outlets took what they read on KICentral as gospel and assumed it to be true since KICentral had reliably been a good source of information from them. Since so many people read so called "other" site and assume things to be 100 percent true, when they in fact may not be, we asked our users to please be courteous and if they are telling the truth to back it up, or else it is a violation of the Terms of Service. This has long been a rule of thumb for both sites, it has just recently been more clearly defined by the other site due to their recent growth, audience, and outreach.

 

I understand there are people who talk to hear themselves talk. I assure you, however, there are people who browse these forums and are knowledgeable in regards to Kings Island in one way or another and post their knowledge on these sites. This "other" site wants these people to become exposed, lessening the likelihood they will put themselves on the line.

 

-If you had thoroughly read the post on the other site, which clearly you have not and interpreted it with your own spin, you would know that the "other" site is not trying to expose anyone and has in no way put themselves on the line nor are they in danger of going anywhere. Their relationship with the park and their friends at Cox publishing has never been better. All they're saying is that if you're going to claim something is 100% fact then you need to be able to back it up, if not, then you need to classify it as a rumor. If someone has told you information you know to be 100 percent true, but they could lose their job over it, then you're better off not posting it to protect them. History has shown that on both sites people have lost their jobs over revealing information they weren't supposed to.

 

Nobody's identity should be compromised

 

-The other site is not forcing anyones identity to be compromised, if you're going to post something and back it up with a source and that source is alright with having their name exposed then thats fine, but if it put's their job at risk then it's not public information and shouldn't be shared anyways in the best interest of their job.

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Part 2 because only a certain amount of quotes are allowed in one post and there is so much to correct in your ignorant and ill informed post...

 

because the "other" site wants to get into Kings Island's, Cedar Fair's and Cox Media's good graces.

 

-The "other" site has clearly shown they have an excellent relationship with Kings Island, Cedar Fair, and a great partnership with Cox publishing, need to get into anyone's good graces? I think not.

 

It is the site administrator's RESPONSIBILITY to ensure the privacy of their sources and members are protected.

 

-No it is not, it is the posters responsibility to ensure their own privacy and validity. For example; lets say you work at the park and hypothetically know that in 2012 they are painting the Eifel Tower pink, but it has not been released by the park yet, well then you are bound to your agreement of employment with the park not to reveal such information. Cedar Fair is an at-will agreement employer and can fire you for whatever they so chose to do so. You put your own neck on the line when revealing private information and exposing yourself. Many times it is even illegal and can be considered inside trading. Point is, its your job, if what you know or have reasonable doubt to believe what your posing is not supposed to be public, then stay on the safe side and respect your employer and job. Neither site guarantees protecting any who so choses to take that risk.

 

Without this, there is a loss of integrity and credibility as an unbiased source to the website.

 

-Lack of integrity and credibility? I don't think so. As has been stated many times the "other" site has excellent relationships with both Cox and the park and continues to do work with them both respecting what each brings to the table. Other media outlets find the information on KIC to have so much integrity that they they often misinterpret rumors for fact, hence the new, better defined terms of service.

 

Trying to censor online, public forums is ludicrous.

 

-Not it is not. The "other" site and this one are both private communities who's users share a common interest, when you register on either site you agree to their respective Terms of Service and rules which they can enforce as they see fit.

 

It takes away from their very purpose. In essence, the "other" site is now a satellite webpage for Kings Island - a supplemental if you will. I extremely doubt that anyone will post a "confirmed" rumor before it is published because they have to reveal their sources - a cost no one wants to bear.

 

-Now your only reaffirming the point of the "other" site re-defining their terms of service rule, if revealing your source puts them at risk then it's probably not something that their employer want's them to be posting anyways. History has shown that examples like this of "inside trading" and "confirming rumors" in both the Cedar Fair and Paramount days have cost employees their job out of their own ignorance.

 

I find it intriguing because, to analogize the situation, not even the CIA would give private information about a leaked operative, Valerie Plame (an operative). This defied a court order and although the CIA eventually complied, they publicly assessed that their operative's privacy was of the utmost importance. These sites hardly resemble any CIA-like importance in their context but the members' privacy should be held at the same level - it's absolutely responsible.

 

-That is a very, very poor analogy. Neither the "other" site or KIExtreme are, or in any way resemble the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States government. Like has been said, each is a private community, you agree to how your privacy is to be handled when you agree to each sites "Terms of Service" when you register, if you have a problem with these, then don't register for that community o request yourself to be removed.

 

I hope that others feel the same way I do and hope that, once again, KIExtreme.com remains committed to protecting their members and their private information - as well as their sources.

 

-I like to think that some of our good friends and mutual members here at KIExtreme are not as ignorant to the subject as you have proven to be. In fact, I'm sure most of them are not as I know both PKIDelirium and TopGun1993 are sensible and probably read the announcement thoroughly.

 

It is the age of the internet and there are people who know more than us, it's the industry.

 

-And it's up to said people to be responsible to their jobs in the industry, not someone else's responsibility to protect them. These aren't the days of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein protecting their sources in regards to criminal activity at the highest form of citizen government, these are fan sites who have good relationships with a park that has a right to protecting their investment and future and certain people who must remain responsible and obligated to their responsibilities with what they say and who they say it to, this is not a privacy issue like you seem to want to make it out to be.

 

Keep up the good work

 

-I'm sure the great guys who run this site will and don't need you to tell them that. ;)

 

For all mutual members, fans of this site, fans of the other site, fans of both sites...do not for one second think your privacy is at risk or that your experience on the "other" site will drastically change like the original poster likes to make it seem The rule has been better defined to work better for all members and allow the other site to maintain a great community that will no doubt keep benefitting it's members in the future.

Edited by Dr. Steve Brule

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All very valid points. I did indeed read the entire announcement.

 

While Dr. Steve covered pretty much everything, I will say that in the current forseeable future there isn't a plan to introduce a policy like this here at KIExtreme, but really, nobody knows what the future will bring. I don't make site decisions lightly though, and any changes to site policy would be thoroughly reviewed by myself and the rest of the staff before anything would be put into effect.

 

Like KICentral, we keep the best interests of the community in mind when making any changes, and any adjustments are carefully thought out before anything goes public.

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I read it and I totally understand why I may not be a member of ''That Other Site'' But I do understand their members are lucky to have such an alliance with Cox Publishing and the media.

Edited by Coaster_King

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You have to understand that we're playing in a bigger boat here. If we (the staff) think of KIC as just a fan site, we're going to end up getting ourselves into trouble. The fact of the matter is, the park has been good to us... very good... and if we need to do something to protect them and their intellectual property, the right thing to do is to do it.

They argue this is due to them having an exclusive agreement with the media (Many people, including myself, refer to this action as the definition of a "sell out"). I am writing about this on this site, because I hope that KIExtreme.com does not follow suit.

Sellout? Honestly? KIC gets more success than most other park fan sites could dream about and we're a sellout? Call it what you will, but I'd do it all over again.

 

So you'd rather see KIExtreme at odds with KI? I'm sure that if the park came to PKIDelirium asking him to amend his terms of service, he'd do it in a heartbeat. Not because he's a sellout, but because he knows what he's doing. You have to realize that these sites exist solely off of handouts and favors from the parks.

 

It is the site administrator's RESPONSIBILITY to ensure the privacy of their sources and members are protected. Without this, there is a loss of integrity and credibility as an unbiased source to the website.

I disagree. Here's the deal: if you can't name your source, then you probably shouldn't be posting it. It's a simple concept.

 

Don't forget that "rumors" are as they always were, it's just when information is so-called "confirmed" that the new rule comes into play.

 

Keep up the good work, KIE.

 

Ryan

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I may get flamed for this, but here it goes:

 

I think KICentral tries their best to become the best site for Kings Island. Is it to try and get KIE guests over to their site? Probably not, saying that most KIE members are also KIC members. But they try to do everything they possibly can to attract readers and keep them there. Keeping them there I'm fine with- they do have all rights to send text messages with news in the near future if they wish. But I got really annoyed on how all rides of Kings Island on Wikipedia have a link that takes them to- you guessed it- KIC. I don't think that's fair, I think if they were really a site that just wanted to inform, they could've done so through keeping the information on Wikipedia in a new document, not their site.

 

And I should just add, I didn't find ExtremePKI through a Wikipedia link that wasn't placed in the proper place- park fansites. Instead, I was searching Kings Island timeline on Google, a fair way to find a site. And I do like this one much better, thanks to a nicer group of members, less energy put into attracting guests, and more features- 360 photos, monthyl quizes, scavenger hunts, daily history questions, history section in forums, and more. I only wish that the park and media would treat the site in the same manner as they do KIC.

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I for one, think this site is better because the people here seem nicer. Also there's not a lot of people so you can make friends and get to know everyone better. Not to mention the site has some pretty neat features on it, and it's updated all the time! Keep it up staff!

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Also half of their members havent logged in at all over the last two years! I've seen members on there members list I havent seen on that site in ages.But still I perfer this site to my better liking but KIC is a great place as well even if some of there members are rude as all get out.

Edited by Coaster_King

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For the make of making sure this doesn't turn into a site bashing thread, I'm going to lock this. Some very good points have been made, and both site's positions have been fully explained. I am glad this thread was made to help straighten things up a bit.

 

Any further questions can be directed to me, and I'll gladly answer them.

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